Sunday, July 22, 2007

Will Anti-Catholics believe Anything (as long as it is Anti-Catholic)?

From a discussion I had on Carrie's blog again:

My mistake...it was only translators and publishers that were executed. Readers and owners were merely anathematized.

But the scriptures were read (and still are) in church every day. Are all priests and lectors anathematized? No, they are not, this is a silly ignorant statement.

The Bible was placed on Rome's Index of Forbidden Books list by the Council of Toulouse/Toledo in the year 1229. It remained there until the index was discontinued at Vatican Council II. Anyone reading or owning a 'forbidden' book was anathematized, or cursed and remanded to hell for doing so.

First of all Toulouse and Toledo are two different cities (Toulouse in France and Toledo in Spain). Second, Toledo was under occupation by the Muslim Moors in 1229, doubtful they would have allowed a Christian Church Council there. There was a council of Toulouse in 1229 and all copies of the scriptures were ordered to be confiscated. But, that is because the heretic Albigensis had passed out doctored scriptures containing heresys, rather than do a house to house search, the Bishops ordered all faithful to turn in their copies in order to eliminate the heresy. Also, the index of forbidden books was not established until 1529. And the Bible was not on it then or up to Vatican II.

Cannon 14 from the Council of Toulouse says that the Roman Catholic Church: "Forbids the laity to have in their possession any copy of the books of the Old and New Testament.... and most strictly forbids these works in the vulgar tongue.".

Yes, that is true, it was also a regional council limited to the south of france and upon the elimination of the heresy, the canon was lifted.

Council of Trent (Session IV, April 8, 1546 Decree Concerning the Canonical Scriptures) ...anyone who studied Scriptures on their own must "be punished with the penalties by law established." Anyone daring to violate this decree was anathematized, or cursed and damned to Hell for it. (Dogmatic Cannons and Decrees of the Council of Trent..., pages 11-13; Copyright 1977, 1912, with Imprimatur and Nihil Obstat. Tan Books and Publishers, P.O. Box 424, Rockford, IL 61105)

You may want to actually read the Canons of Trent, what it actually says is that it is heresy to twist the scriptures to your own beliefs.

Liguori, the most respected of Cannon Lawyers in the Roman Catholic Church, wrote that, "The Scriptures and books of Controversy may not be permitted in the vulgar tongue, as also they cannot be read without permission."

Funny, I cannot find this quote in any of Liguori's works. I don't believe it because there were millions of Catholic Bibles in the vulgar tounges (printed with permission). So sorry, if I dont believe this quote even exists.

Pope Clement XI (1713), in his bull Unigenitus, wrote that "We strictly forbid them [the laity] to have the books of the Old and New Testament in the vulgar tongue."

Once again, it does not say that, it does say:To forbid Christians to read Sacred Scripture, especially the Gospels, is to forbid the use of light to the sons of light, and to cause them to suffer a kind of excommunication.

I'll rephrase the question: Would Christ have anathematized His people for owning His Word in their language?

No, he would not, and as I have demonstrated to you, neither has the Catholic Church.

What was the penalty for translating, publishing, owning Scripture?

With permission, and properly done (literal word for word with no changes) then nothing. Do you realize the Catholic Douy-Rheims actually predates the KJV? If the Church wanted to keep the Bible out of the hands of commoners. Why would it do that?

Do your own research, and stay away from Anti-Catholic sites, they are so often wrong.

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